The Camping Forum

[AlanI]

Well I'm certainly no expert in these matters but I think at this stage I'd be tempted to add some water soluble colouring to your watering can (food colouring maybe), pour it over the outside at the point that you suspect water is entering and see can you locate it as it ingresses onto the inside. Being water soluble you'll be able to clean it up later.

[OutdoorRambo]

Well I'm certainly no expert in these matters but I think at this stage I'd be tempted to add some water soluble colouring to your watering can (food colouring maybe), pour it over the outside at the point that you suspect water is entering and see can you locate it as it ingresses onto the inside. Being water soluble you'll be able to clean it up later.

Now that's a smart idea

[nutgone]

Do any of the poles protrude through the canvas? It looks almost like one of the door frame poles has an end that sticks through just above the door. If so, does it have a rain cap on it? (like a small disk of rubber with a hole in it).
Just a thought really, maybe something like this got left out?

It looks to me like it certainly has something to do with the door area, or something to do with how the tent goes up.

Did you say it came with NO instructions?

[AlanI]

And another thing. Yes, I know that the following link refers to a 2011 model but under the features section it states that quote "The walls have an eight inch, colour-matched, rubber flap that tucks under the groundsheet to create a wind and rain-resistant seal " unquote. Does your have the same feature and are you erecting it this way?

http://www.belltent.co.uk/index.php?mai ... ducts_id=3

[dunklezhan]

Alan,

Great idea with the watering can & dye - but I've got a stretch of two days now with the sun out, I need to get the tent down while its semi dry to stop it dripping all over the house, so I can't try that (no time to hunt down dyes, let alone wet it and let it dry again) - but I will bear it in mind for the spring which I think is the next real opportunity to put it up and test it.

Also it's not from belltent.co.uk tent - I'm actually pretty familiar with those and the instructions you read are for their version without a sewn in groundsheet (I actually put one of those up this summer and I don't see how that tucking business would work in bad weather anyway. But that's besides the point - this isn't one of theirs, nor is it a soulpad). Belltent.co.uk's or soulpad's sewn in groundsheet models don't have a 'skirt' at all.

I'm actually wondering whether the skirt is the 'defect' on this tent - the SIG is not 'bathtub', its level with the ground which I wouldn't have expected - so water seepage may actually be inevitable with this one if the weather is particularly bad. I wonder whether the defect is that the SIG has been installed incorrectly.

I think, once it's dry, that I'm going to consider sending to a tent valet company like the one rex linked (as they're only in Bolton I could get there pretty easily, quick hop over the pennines for me), and get the seams checked and the tent reproofed. To be honest, as long as that costs less than £150 I'm still getting a bargain with the tent.

[dunklezhan]

Nutgone - you're quite right. There is a 'spike' over the door. Also... there's a plastic rain cap, and I hadn't spotted it. It was on the top of the spike and its now inside the tent where it shouldn't be. That will certainly have added to the problem in the doorway, but I do think the larger part of the problem is water just seeping through where the pole touches the canvas - I've had plenty of tents with raincaps that have got completely lost and been used in awful weather but never seen any pooling like the amounts involved here - it also doesn't explain the seeping around the rest of the perimeter.

But well spotted, I'll certainly make sure that's on the right side of the canvas next time it goes up!

[rexgrant]

Hi
looks like I got the wrong impression that the Ground sheet was sown in, and the instruction about how to set the ground sheet is used by all tents that have an internal mud flap,as long as the ground sheet fits over the mud flap no water should come in under the tent but if the ground sheet goes under the mud flap then water can come in under the tent. Unless you are pitched at the bottom of a slope were heavy runoff water will get in.
Good cotton canvas tents sheets are only treated with anti mold and rot agents which are absorbed by the cotton and have nothing to do with the water proofing of the tent. Pure cotton woven canvas waterproofs itself from day one as the cotton fibers get wet they swell and close the weave to stop rain globules coming through the sheet if you touch a wet sheet then you temporarily open the weave to allow the water to pass through, when the weave as closed their is still very small holes in the weave these holes still allow water vapor to pass to the outside before it as chance to condense on the inside. Poles that are pushed against the inside sheet will not cause the sheet to leak when it gets wet outside.
As for cleaning and reproofing in (my opinion) I would leave your problem to the Professionals to do it ,that is if they will take it on when you explain the problem with it,these people seem reasonable enough
http://www.belltent.co.uk/index.php?mai ... 695fef8290
Good luck with it.
Rex.

[dunklezhan]

Sorry Rex I'm not sure which bit of my posts have been confusing, but apologies for whichever bit it is. I'll try to be explicit:

A basic bell from belltent.co.uk does not have a sewn in ground sheet, and that has a skirt attached to the main canvas that tucks under the groundsheet. You can buy a version of the belltent.co.uk tent with a sewn in groundsheet, but that has no skirt and the groundsheet is very clearly bathtub style.

The tent I have, however, is not from belltent.co.uk, it is from mycooltent.com (which is now defunkt) and it DOES have a sewn in groundsheet. Absolutely, positively, yes it does. The skirt is also sewn on, but sits on the outside of the tent. From the stitching where the canvas joins on to it, it looks like it is just a continuation of the main groundsheet. Additionally, it is not 'bathtub', but instead the canvas stitches onto the ground sheet right at ground level, with the skirt sticking out form there, with nothing to fasten it on to.

Now that the guys of my tent are stretched and tightened, the most serious puddle of water that appears after heavy rain in my tent is centered around where the door poles reach the floor - i.e. either side of the door. Here a LOT of water is collecting. Around rest of the perimeter the problem is much less serious - though still an issue if we were camping. However this water is only appearing around the edges. There are no signs of drips or water collecting anywhere on the rest of the floor. Hence me thinking it must be coming in where the poles are touching, or just where things aren't quite as tight as they should be.

I hope you don't mind if I simplify and paraphrase to make sure I understand the reasoning: you are saying these tents do not get treated for waterproofing, only mildew and rot, and they are not treated for waterproofing because they should be naturally waterproof?

If I have that right, could it be that the canvas where the poles touch is being stretched, which presumably would widen the pores in the fabric? And in the other locations could it simply be the seams are damaged and so water is just passing straight through them?

Edit: also, thanks for pointing out the belltent.co.uk valeting service., I'd already found that (and the conways valet business which is quite close over in bolton) but when its not one of their tents they don't give you a price - I can of course ask them, and they'll quote me. I'm just trying to make sure I understand the problem so I can get an accurate quote.

[nutgone]

Will the skirt/storm flap thingy tuck underneath, do you think???

I've been looking at the pictures again to try & make out how it pegs. Most tents have storm flaps (or a skirt), some peg under the skirt, so it HAS to go on top, but most peg over the top of it, so it HAS to be tucked underneath (this is regardless of SIG) as you no doubt know. It's just got me thinking, that's all.

As for the rain cap, most tents with rain caps are double skin, so there's somewhere else for the water to go. I think you'd be surprised how much you could get through there. But as you say, it's obviously not the whole problem.

I personally don't think you need to get this tent re-proofed. Some modern canvas tents ARE actually waterproof treated during manufacture, usually within the fibres of the canvas itself. But, as Rex has said, it should be naturally waterproof.

If you're running out of time then put it away until spring, but I think you're getting there with this one. Just need to sort out where that skirt is supposed to go, or even if it's supposed to be there at all. After that I think it's simply a matter of erection technique, but time will tell I guess.

What would be really good would be to get hold of some original instructions, or even a brochure from the manufacturer. A lot of these companies have their tents made by the same manufacturers (don't suppose it has any labels on it? Made in......?) chances are you'll dig up some pictures, instructions, brochures somewhere. Or maybe even someone else who owns one, I know they're defunct, but someone somewhere must have bought one.

Something will turn up............

[Rob-merlin1973]

Ok

Found out that the company you said were selling these tents were quite open about the fact all their stock was imported from china.

I had a little google and found this info page showing 3 makers/sellers of similar tents that may be worth contacting .... worth a try as they look similar ..... for what it's worth i think the flap folds under.

[dunklezhan]

You guys are awesome, thanks for all the thought you're putting in.

I've taken a close look, and those chinese tents are all similar, they're also each significantly different in some way, so the instructions are going to be hard. My google-fu is failing miserably to find instructions online for the specific tent I have - and I have emailed the manufacturer both via their email account and the email account which they used when they were in business - I'm not really expecting a reply, of course.

It may indeed just be a case of tucking the flap underneath (but why the holes for pegs to go through? WHY, mycooltent, WHY?? lol).

I have however just found this thread:

UK Campsite/chatter/dis ... osition=1=


[edit] links out from the forums don't appear to work. ukcampsite.co.uk>message forums>camping under canvas>tent talk, advice and recommendations> thread called 'which bell tent supplier?' [/edit]

page 2. Looks like this is a design flaw, not a 'defect'. (emphasis added by me)

I did leave it on the ground, as the holes would indicate you should, but my tent also leaked all around the window. If you tucked the groundsheet under then your canvas would be sat in water & mud-wouldn't it?

If you look at Soulpad or Bell tent uk then they have a 3 inch or so lip of groundsheet.

I think it would be almost better to stitch the groundsheet up all the way along the canvas-giving a lot more protection-also take lots of seam sealant with you. The body of the canvas on mine was fine. However, it did leak in through where the Aframe is-a pool of water at the bottom of the Aframe. And yes, I had used the rain cap.

I reckon with a bit of work they could be got to be weather proof but when I paid £300 for mine I didn't expect to have to do all that.

Exact same problems as mine (perhaps those additional pools of water on the perimeter are coming in through the windows, not the seam as I thought). I had been wondering whether or not folding up the skirt and stitching it to the canvas higher up might be the answer, and it certainly looks like they were having the same issue. Presumably one of those tent valeting companies could do this for me? If it works, and costs less than £150 I'm still making a saving on a new one from belltent.co.uk or soulpad...

[Donnelly69]

I believe the mud wall/snow curtains are designed to be out side on this tent. They are not the same as the flaps found on most frame tents which tuck under. These will lie out onto the ground, as in your photos, and protect the low-lying ground sheet from rain/water ingress.

Snow/rocks/turf can then be laid on top of the flaps in extreme weather to give added thermal and stability qualities.

Similar ideas to these - http://www.cave-crag.co.uk/3659/Vango-F ... -Tent.html & http://tente.quechua.com/en/tent/r-12,a ... ay-t2.html

[dunklezhan]

Those also have the added bonus of the waterproof part of the skirt extending up the main fly, so if water pools on them it doesn't matter. Mine... no. The canvas comes right down to ground level.

Lesson here: if you're buying a bell, buy from belltent.co.uk - I can vouch for their quality having used two borrowed from friends this summer and last October (where the rain was even worse than its been this week and nary a drop of water entered the tent...).

[nutgone]

Those other tents with the storm flaps are also quite different in design. The storm flaps are on the outer skin of the tent (flysheet) & it has an inner tent with a bathtub style SIG, whereas the bell tent in question here is single skin.

I had also thought about suggesting you get the flap sewn up to form a bathtub style groundsheet, but I think with the holes in it for the pugs/pegging rubbers & the fact the canvas would still be there, on the inside of it, it would probably cause you more problems than it would solve.

I wish I had paid more attention to the bell tents I saw when I was on my recent "Canvas Only" camping meet, there were a few different types there.

[nutgone]

Just having another look at the pics. I don't think the holes in the skirt are for the pegs, they are for the pegging strap/rubber to pass through, in which case Donnelly would be right.

As far as I know, when erecting a Bell tent, you peg out the base first then erect the pole & do the guys. But I thought the base was supposed to be pegged out tight before the pole was erected.
If this was the case then the holes in the skirt would be too close to the tent for the pegs, as you wouldn't get it pegged out tight enough.

As for the skirt? Well, maybe it's supposed to raise up slightly as the tent is erected, so that water always runs off it.

This is all speculation though, as I've never actually put up a bell or pyramid type tent before.