The Camping Forum

[subaqua]

yay i got on an ignore list for making sure people don't hurt themselves with electricity. good job i am happy with my knobsize.

I guess all that electrical theory i did as part of my apprenticeship and then degree has changed. I really also must tell the national grid that they have it wrong too.

for those that care the voltage between phase to neutral in the uk (Uo) is 230v and is derived from the phase to phase voltage of 400v divided by 1.732 ( sq root of 3) the 230V ( and indeed the 400V) is a RMS voltage which as somebody pointed out is indeed 0.707 of the peak value. this gives the same power ratings as calculating on DC circuits.
don't always rely on a DIY forum for answers
electricity is safe if treated with respect and you UNDERSTAND it.

2 no 120V sources reversed - thats gonna get a huge laugh at the prestart briefings in work tomorrow.
whats the phrase oh yes "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Please , if you want to be safe, don't follow Rexs advice. you may well end up hurt,or your kids/grandkids will.

the three on top of each other is what i use and i take a 4 gang trailing lead to give a better access. as long as the hook up ids kept offthe floor and out of the wet you will be OK.

the French have a good name for an RCD interupeur differential tells you how it works really. current imbalance between pahse and neutral . an RCD on its own will not provide short circuit(P-N) or overcurrent protection, it protects only against earth faults. for overcurrent or short circuit (P-N)it needs to backed up with a MCB . you can have a combined device called an RCBO and these are becoming far more common.

section 7 of BS7671 shows the arrangements for caravan park supplies and details a hook up device.

Camping and caravanning club haven't had a problem with the lead i use nor with the older lead i used to use which was a MK masterseal twin socket that was RCD protected. this was the better lead IMO as the plugs are enclosed in an IP rated flap.

as always its up to you, but if you want to saty safe contact a qualified electrician . I mean you wouldn't want a nn gas safe engineer working on your gas boiler at home would you.

[TerryV]

Can I be really cheeky and tap into Wayne and Subaqua's expertise here please?

I set my EHU up on Friday and I couldn't get it to work. The trip switch on my unit just wouldn't stay in the on position no matter what I did. Asked one of the wardens to come take a look and he checked it wasn't the camp site units.

Took it to a camping shop and an electrical shop but they couldn't help me (camp shop was only a small on site one and hadn't got a clue, the electrician in the electricL shop said he hadn't maintained his certification), so i got a new unit in a local caravan place which worked fine.

This unit has only been used for 2 camps, one for 2 nights and another 8 nights and was fine when I last used it.

I took the back off and the plug off to check the connections and it all seems OK. Only thing I can thing of is a faulty circuit breaker.

Is it worth trying to get this fixed or has it just had it? What could be causing it? I can't see anything on the web that gives me any clues.

Cheers.

[subaqua]

Can I be really cheeky and tap into Wayne and Subaqua's expertise here please?

I set my EHU up on Friday and I couldn't get it to work. The trip switch on my unit just wouldn't stay in the on position no matter what I did. Asked one of the wardens to come take a look and he checked it wasn't the camp site units.

Took it to a camping shop and an electrical shop but they couldn't help me (camp shop was only a small on site one and hadn't got a clue, the electrician in the electricL shop said he hadn't maintained his certification), so i got a new unit in a local caravan place which worked fine.

This unit has only been used for 2 camps, one for 2 nights and another 8 nights and was fine when I last used it.

I took the back off and the plug off to check the connections and it all seems OK. Only thing I can thing of is a faulty circuit breaker.

Is it worth trying to get this fixed or has it just had it? What could be causing it? I can't see anything on the web that gives me any clues.

Cheers.

taking theplug off wont help. the problem is inside the hook up part that the orange lead goes into. my guess is a bit of condensation causing a earth leakage large enough to trip the 30mA trip. I have had spiders in Junction boxes cause problems like this before. so worth looking for that too.

there was nothing plugged in at the time was there ?

[TerryV]

Cheers. Took the plug off as thought electricity wasn't getting to the unit and wire may have come loose. The switch isn't on and then tripping but just not allowing me to move it into on position at all.

Nothing plugged in it.

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[subaqua]

Cheers. Took the plug off as thought electricity wasn't getting to the unit and wire may have come loose. The switch isn't on and then tripping but just not allowing me to move it into on position at all.

Nothing plugged in it.

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switch is banjaxed. the mechanism has jammed. you could go to a decent wholesalers ( edmunson , Newy and eyre) and get a new RCD unit and fit it , but that will likely cost you more than the new lead anyway, which says something about the quality of the gear fitted. even with economies of scale we in the trade can't get close to them prices.

Luckily i have spare bits and bobs to replace things like that, collected in the 20+ years i have been a Qualified electrician.

that reminds me, must test the hook up lead and put the PAT sticker on it before it gets stored away for the winter. then i can see how much it has deteriorated at the start of next year.

[rexgrant]

Hi Wayne
Yes those 3 way units are bad to get some-plugs in them .I have a trailing socket with an RCD plug fitted and it is called a JOJO and I have to use a 3way adapter as an extension to use it
I also will not argue about electrical subjects, as the the only personnel experience as been taught, was on government training courses on my advanced engineering courses to qualify as a quality Assurance engineer biest to electric and mechanical engineering.
But that was 30 years ago and things have changed a lot since then, but what I quoted may have not been word perfect but no danger to a forum member .
Still what the hell it as given me something to type while wait for Val to get ready for our trip into Dartmouth.
the mist as just lifted from the sea and the sun is shining from a blue sky.
Have a nice day Wayne.
Rex.

[TerryV]

Thanks for the advice Subaqua. Don't feel so bad I ended up forking out for a new unit now.

[rexgrant]

Hi again
As we have been reminded we must not confuse campers on this forum and that is exactly what as taken place here.
I recommended that campers use a hookup sold in camping retail store for safe use in tents, and I agreed that the three outlets one above the other were too close a some plugs especially the ones with transformers could not be fitted without a extension plug in adapter.
but these units are safe to use for a tent.
I stated that 1.5mm cable was not recommended for use as a hook up lead here is the spec for that size.
Size 1.5 mm2, Max load 15 amps, Up to 3600 Watts, these figures taken from here
http://www.diynot.com/pages/el/el004.php.
So I don't think that there is any doubt that the Hook-up assembly that I recommended is 100% safe. so my post was in no way endangering campers life.
I also quoted that 1.5mm was not recommended for a hook-up assembly even though the 10amp double pole MCB would trip at the stated 10amps.
Now I was told That I should not discuss hook-up leads and leave that to the professional You see the pro told me that a 10amp MCB would not trip at 10 amps and that it would take 15 to 18 amps So let us look at the result of a novice camper using this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAMPING-CARAV ... m19c6eb42d
with a 1.5 cable with a 16amp MCB so if we take the same increase from 16amp this MCB would take 21 to 24 amps to trip this 16 amp mcb.
So what we have here is a cable that as a maximum rated load of 15 amps been used on an appliance that could draw 24 amps or 21 depend on mcb quality.
the MCB in the pitches hook up is 16 amp that would also allow up to a minimum of 21 amps according to our expert this would mean it would allow a tent camper in theory to run 2x2kw heaters and leaving 830 watts for lights TV fridge and a novice camper with the above hook up assembly may just do that this would mean that the cable on the above hook-up lead would be overloaded by 6 amps with a possibility of 9 amps now that is a lot of heat how long it would take to start to burn I do not know but I know it would.
The information I have used to arrive at these figures are from the Internet and one of our members.
So going back to my first post I would still recommenced to campers that it would be wise IN MY OPINION to purchase a
hook-up assembly that as a 2.5/25amp cable as a double pole 10 amp MCB and the relative RCD this way you can be sure you will not brake site rules if applicable and be 100% safe. as stated previously.
http://www.towsure.com/category/Campsite_Mains.
Regards
Rex

[CrazyCamper]

I don't know what others feel, but this thread is getting me confused..... I feel I need to take advice from others, so can we please just leave it as is for now?

[Rob-merlin1973]

Personally I think this has got way to technical .......
Simple answer would be...... buy the one for the job

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[M0KAS]

I didn't think i needed a degree in electrical theory to buy one of these, if I was making my own cheapie,

http://www.gardeningessentials.co.uk/in-line-rcd-16a-p-12650.html?currency=GBP

or one of these if i wasn't

http://www.outdoorworld.co.uk/triple-mobile-mains-unit


And i thought calculating impedance and inductance was bad....

[rexgrant]

Personally I think this has got way to technical .......
Simple answer would be...... buy the one for the job

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Hi Rob.
That is what I quoted in my first post,buy the one to do the Job, that is documented safe for use in a tent. From a recognised camping outlet or get an electrician to make you one up to accept a 16amp load and get the required document from him to show campsite managers and owners that it is made to the required legal spec. for outside use with a 16amp load.
I do not like members stateing that my posts are dangerous they are not, and certainly not my first post on this subject, It could be called over-spec/but that is not my statement, they are the makers
I fell better now I have stated the above facts that can be checked out on the members posts and the links given by me.
Regards
Rex.

[rexgrant]

I didn't think i needed a degree in electrical theory to buy one of these, if I was making my own cheapie,

http://www.gardeningessentials.co.uk/in-line-rcd-16a-p-12650.html?currency=GBP

or one of these if i wasn't

http://www.outdoorworld.co.uk/triple-mobile-mains-unit


And i thought calculating impedance and inductance was bad....

Hi MOKAS
The unit in your first link Is an in-line RCD this recognizes if you get a fault and trips to stop you getting electrocuted ,it will not control the power draw on a hook-up cable The second link is to a complete safe unit.
Regards
Rex

[Admin]

Any EHU sold by a reputable retailer will suffice and you simply pick one for your own needs.. this topic is getting over complicated far more so than needs be...

To be honest this topic is a duplicate and we already have a very detailed topic on this already that is sticky on the equipment section. found here

In the interests of keeping newer members or non members who just browsing for information on this subject I'm closing this topic down.

Please if you wish to discuss further please do so within the original advice topic. Link here again just in case you missed it above

Im sure you will understand it far better to contain within one.

Thanks

Andy