The Camping Forum

[scottystl6]

Hi guys,
im a university student looking to redesign the camping ricksack and was just wondering how many of you have problems with your current rucksacks?? if so what sort of issies you have?? for example- hassle packing and re-packing, not waterproof, uncomfortable etc
any feedback what so ever would be great!
thanks
scott

[OutdoorRambo]

Although many campers may also be ramblers/fell walkers etc you may find you need a more specialised forum to really glean the information you require.

Try http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/forum.asp?sp=&v=8 and http://www.go4awalk.com/the-bunkhouse.php

[macgfamily]

Agree with Outdoor Rambo - when you state a camping rucksac(k), it makes me think you're not very familiar with this space.... correct? Are you talking about what would usually be known as a backpacking sack/pack?

This is an interesting but potentially hard design problem since there is no right answer and is all about balancing the following factors:

First three are the big trade-offs....
* volume - pretty important since what you are trying to do is create space to carry stuff!
* weight - historically somewhat forgotton about in order to improve the other factors below... but a modern lightweight backpacking movement is putting this right
* comfort - but how much weight to achieve that comfort.... since weight is uncomfortable... where's the optimum?! How do different designs fit different sizes and shapes of user?

Then you have to factor in...
* durability - tougher materials? but again, potential weight problem...
* features - pockets, zips, attachments... all good but weight?
* waterproofness
* stability - dependent on activity....
* style
* cost - as ever

Suggest as well as the forums suggested by Outdoor Rambo you also consider some of the lightweight advocates and bloggers for advice. Some interesting design approaches emerging such as dispensing with heavy top lid in favour of simple roll top.
Look at GoLite packs for a big leader in lighter weight gear. For example, the GoLite Jam pack.
Some gear gurus include Chris Townsend (legend and author of backpacking handbook) and at the extreme end of lightweight in UK search for Colin Ibbotson. Plenty of blogs such as Lightweight Outdoors.

Huge amount of online reviews and discussion out there.

Good luck.

cheers

Iain

[scottystl6]

ok thanks for the feedback guys!
i was looking at focussing on modular storage space and use of differnet matterials to the conventional canvas or waterproof materials (that in my experience arent ever waterproof) also making the whole manufacture and design more environmentally friendly.
this was just a quick post to see if others find the same issues, but will check out the suggested forums!!
thanks again- much appreciated
scott

[macgfamily]

OK, interesting but bear in mind my points about weight.... a rucksack is by definition something you have to carry (obviously - but then how come we end up with so many heavy sacks).... unlike many other design objects in which adding features, and therefore weight, doesn't matter so much.

Be mindful of Outdoor Rambo's thought provoking tagline:
"Indian builds small fire and stays warm, white man builds large fire and stays warm collecting firewood"

So, for example, the standard approach to waterproofing (or lack of it) is to use a simple, light, waterproof rucksack liner. And NOT to add a lot of complexity and potentially weight in achieving water-tightness!
One manufacturer that has recently entered the market with a waterproof rucsac is Ortlieb (who, interestingly, previously made waterproof liner and storage bags like I mentioned!). Worth having a look at their take...?

cheers

Iain

[macgfamily]

Sorry, another thought!
I am not sure I agree with your point about material and water-proofness.... IMHO it is not really the *material* that causes leaks in rucksacks (or waterproof jackets etc). Assuming that the materials chosen are usually fairly waterproof (although the waterproofing can degrade with wear).

It is mainly entry points (ie. zips, flaps etc) and to a lesser extent seams that allow ingress.

[LittleSkink]

I think a few other things to look at

Ben Moon does some innovative stuff with climbing sacs. Ortlieb and a few others do good fully waterproof approaches (as have been mentioned). Karrimor SP do some good kit (as do a few of the military folks) while my favourites (Pod) are pretty old fashioned and not hand made in Sheffield any more but bombproof construction (at a weight penalty)

If you really mean "Canvas" then Duluth packs and the like are where to look, the last UK mainstreamn Canvas rucsacs where the Relums from the 1980s I think. Modern Cordura et al is tougher and lighter (and waterproof). Rucsacs are not usually waterproof because of the sewing and opening not the fabrics - if you heat weld (like Ortlieb) then waterproof is no problem. Even Lomo can do that fairly cheaply these days

As with any design challenge (an I am sure you know this already) understanding your requirements and constraints is an important place to start - this will be defined by use, functionality, environment, price point etc. Then a good thing to do is explore the tgfas (taken for granted assumptions) that give you the opportunity for an innovation breakthrough - if that is genuinely what you are looking for. Good luck - always good to have a fresh take on an old problem

(PM me if you want a few more ways to generate ideas/innovation, part of my business is helping organisations be more creative in that way and one of my degrees is Engineering Design)

[OutdoorWorldDirect]

Rucksacks are predominantly hard to waterproof because there are so many nooks and crevices so to speak etc.

Karrimor used to make the best rucksacks before they went into Sports Direct, they had the lightest and most dirable designs. North Face do some decent designs if i recall too.

A lot of R&D has already gone into rucksacks so its hard to improve on how far they have already come. The main things is that it needs to sit in the right places in terms of weight - on the shoulders and hips.

Good luck with your research!

Cheers

David