The Camping Forum

[rexgrant]

Politics apart.
Should we leave the EU or stay, and why.
Rex.

[Wayne]

OK, my honest answer............... I really don't know. I don't understand the financial and economical impact it will have staying or going. I think the best thing would have been to never join originally and as such it might be worse leaving than never being a member originally. I'm not saying thats fact, I just wondering out loud. Watching this thread with interest and hoping it will be an interesting and friendly debate I can learn from

[rexgrant]

Hi
Well deep down I don't think been in the EU as done the British workers and their families any good, it as in my opinion help the do gooders of Europe the opportunity to put into law some absolutely ridiculous laws.That as helped further to remove normal family life, my opinion and the only ones who really benefited are the rich Myself I think we could make it on our own again before we loose all the ability to make things that we still invent and before all the factory's are demolished and storage built to store cheap badly made imports in from the Far East. Just my opinion I think for my grand children s sake we should close the channel tunnel and put the blinds up on our borders with a sign saying" FULL"
That's what this old man thinks
Rex.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... 80000.html

[Camp Moose]

we should close the channel tunnel

The ferry companies would like that too.

[rexgrant]

we should close the channel tunnel

The ferry companies would like that too.

True.
Rex.

[Wayne]

Hi
Well deep down I don't think been in the EU as done the British workers and their families any good, it as in my opinion help the do gooders of Europe the opportunity to put into law some absolutely ridiculous laws.That as helped further to remove normal family life, my opinion and the only ones who really benefited are the rich Myself I think we could make it on our own again before we loose all the ability to make things that we still invent and before all the factory's are demolished and storage built to store cheap badly made imports in from the Far East. Just my opinion I think for my grand children s sake we should close the channel tunnel and put the blinds up on our borders with a sign saying" FULL"
That's what this old man thinks
Rex.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... 80000.html

Some interesting points that ring true Rex.

I have heard many people older than myself, shaking there head in shame and saying how we don't make anything in Britain any more. I also like anything I buy to be well made, and I often have to return stuff for a refund as "not fit for purpose" these days. Only yesterday I returned some socks to B&M for a refund, only worn one pair for 8 hours before they had holes in them.

So as I say, your opinion is ringing very true. I can't remember anybody ever saying to me that they were doing really well financially because we joined up, I'm not saying people haven't, just that I don't know anyone personally.

[TerryV]

Whatever your view is of Europe, where I live, the main industry is agriculture and food packing and without the migrant labour from Europe, there would not be a sustainable workforce to do the hard and tough work that is required because Brits just aren't willing to do it anymore. I'd certainly rather have people from Europe that are making a contribution to the local economy and paying tax and national insurance than what some European countries have to put up with with British people retiring to places like France and Spain and making no contribution at all.

Before anyone thinks I am being unfair about Brits living abroad, my dad is one of them and in certain French villages near my dad, the whole village is now made up of just Brits as the French have moved out.

[rexgrant]

Hi Terry
You have a valid point there, and yes the influx of foreign workers are taking jobs both what our people will not do or are not qualified for, but if we had not gone soft on workers with all the regulations forced on our employers by the EU,thing may have been different.(just my opinion.) But it is also true probably just as many EU people have entered the UK with no intention of working knowing that we will fill their hands with money that our own people are now going short especially the old and infirm, and brought in many EU crimes child trafficking for sex and begging.
We have given the EU time to prove its worth,and in my opinion it as failed the working people of the UK,and I would like to see us pull out and go our own way, we must not forget the vast majority of indigenous people of the UK are very hard working,and given the opportunity and backed by good politicians I am sure we would make it in the world market.
Regards
Rex.

[AlanI]

Should we leave the EU or stay, and why.

It's not a question of 'should we', shouldn't we' Rex because in simple terms you can't any more than the wheel can be uninvented. Your economy, business interests and social integration is now so embroiled/entwined in Europe that taking a step back really isn't an option.
The UK has seen so much of it's large exporting industries fall by the wayside or decimated, added to which it has been very slow in seizing the new opportunities that the developing world has had to offer, and continues to offer. The Greeks might also at this time like to withdraw from the Euro if not from the EU itself but they to don't really have an option as their trade is also very much hand tied to the European market.
The world is now very much divided up into trading blocks - the Asian block, the European block and the American blocks. When geographically situated within one of these blocks but attempting to trade independently of it is a sure recipe for economic disaster.
Much more could be achieved if the UK stopped thinking of itself as the cornerstone of an Empire that once was, accepting that in real world terms it is only a small time player (however hard that might be to accept) and attempted to fully integrate themselves into the broader community. I sometimes cringe when I listen to the rhetoric of several MP's and acting in the way of spoilt children in so much as, 'if we don't play by my rules then I'm not playing at all'.
So by all means vote to withdraw if ever a referendum is offered but beware of the consequences of what you are voting for.

[rexgrant]

Hi Alan
Good post and correctly put,I know the situation Alan and the consequences for some of our big businesses who don't use the potential workforce of the UK it cheaper to make their riches getting their products made in the Farr east to sell in the UK , I still think the UK could make it and given the chance to vote, I am for leaving the EU.
But even if we get the referendum they will probably ignore what the majority wants anyway the city run the government in this country In my opinion
Regards
Rex

[in-a-tent]

If we left the EU our economy would be destroyed, most of our trade is with Europe, pull out of the EU and that would be crippled. Also without the EU's economic muscle China, Russia and the US would walk all over us.

On a separate theme we don't have factories making things as much as we used to because we've moved on past that kind of economy. So we let countries with cheaper labour do that now. Unless you are willing to take a pay cut to match the labour force in China then you need to realise going back to being a major manufacturing nation is not on the cards.

We are however still a major player in rmthe world and we still invent things and that's one of the things that keeps us afloat in the world. As an example of how we've moved on take ARM. They are hugely successful but they make nothing physical. However the chips they DESIGN are in more than 90% of mobile phones and tablets.

We've moved on, becoming richer in the process and being in the EU has helped us do that.

For one final sign of whether being in the EU is advantageous you only need look at the queue of countries wanting to get in.

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[rexgrant]

Hi all
I know what you say is true But I cannot help the way I feel, in 1957 when I started work as an apretice machine tool maker at T>S>Harrisons down Union Street in Heckmondwike west Yorkshire. We made the union lathes the only thing the firm did not make for itself were the castings the skilled toolmakers were very proud of their skills.
Yes I suppose I am an old romantic,Made in England on the label when I look out there now it is very sad day for families,if they want any-sort of life it requires both of them to go out to work,Well you oldies will know what I mean.
Rex. &

[AlanI]

For one final sign of whether being in the EU is advantageous you only need look at the queue of countries wanting to get in.

Good point and essentially reinforces the argument as to why the UK can't and shouldn't opt out of membership. These other countries are themselves realising that with 'Globalisation' and Economic Integration' it is to their disadvantage to remain on the peripheries whilst all around them are developing both financial stability and economic security.
I fully understand and sympathise with your being an 'old romantic' Rex and I feel sure that if you were in a position of power you would most likely rule with your heart although I also feel that after a few weeks in office you would begin to realise that things just aren't working and would start to use your head.
Finally, have you ever asked yourself why Germany is fighting tooth and nail to ensure that discussions currently taking place bring forth a positive result? On the one hand our Chancellors hands are tied in so much that the population at large will see a large hit on their tax payments, whilst on the other hand she and the Government know that should the Euro fail along with a strong possibility of the EU failing with it, then the living standards and high incomes presently enjoyed by the population will plummet. Sixty percent of all employment is in some shape or form dependent on the automotive industry and something in the order of eighty percent of what we produce is for export. Because of this we Germans enjoy the highest rates of incomes within the EU, have more holiday entitlement (both according to a recent EU survey) and have pretty much the highest living standard. To a greater extent this has all been achieved as a result of being part of the EEC/EU and were the Euro to fail and/or the EU it would be Germany that took the hardest hit.
I feel sure that the UK is going through what it considers to be a rough patch at this moment in time and this is against a backdrop of a weak pound when compared to the Euro despite it's current problems. Think how much harder things would get if the pound were to rise against the Euro once again making exports even more expensive and thus less desirable. Add to that, that once out of the EC you would in all likelihood be subject to export quotas into EU member countries with all that entails.
All this makes me sound very much pro European. Well in fact I'm not - I was dead against it from the word go as we had a strong currency in the Mark and also produced quality goods that were desired the world over. I also personally believed that a mish-mash of countries with different beliefs, cultures, traditions and values could never fully integrate into a Union and in a lot of respects I still hold these beliefs. However, with fluctuating currency values it was difficult for businesses to make proper business plans and to guarantee fixed returns on investments. Remember, we're talking billions here not simply as tourists exchanging a few pounds or whatever currency to take on our annual holiday. So whilst against closer economic and trade integration from the start I could never envisage a point where we could ever go back and were we ever to be offered a referendum on remaining in the EU I would most definitely vote yes.

[rexgrant]

Hi Alan
Both Germany and France and most of the original countries of the EU are thriving industrial nations but our country wants to make its money without getting its hands dirty these days, we have a few small specialized manufacturing
companies the rest industry is owned by other nations and as they are beginning to buy up our power and water industry what will we have left to call our own,
IF AT FIRST YOU DONT SUCCEDE TRY AND TRY AGAIN
REGARDS
Rex

[in-a-tent]

Rex, France and Germany may have more traditional industry but in other areas Britian is way in advance. Our software industry for example puts them to shame. As does our marketing expertise and our service industry is a huge export earner. We are still a leader in the design field.

The issue of whether we're in the EU and the type of economy we have are totally separate.

Alan you're discussing being in the Eurozone which is a more complex issue and one Britain isn't directly involved in. Being in the EU is a less complicated issue and it's easier to see how the benefits of being a member outweigh the costs.

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