The Camping Forum

[Admin]

I think part of the problem.. is that most of the rules displayed are what most of us would normally follow without being asked its just normal respect for fellow campers..

I say most of us.. as we all know select few dont seem to follow any rules and i suspect these are just outlined so that should they need to do anything they cant turn and say we did'nt know..

At hopleys earlier in the year they had the rule no noise after 11pm but we were still chatting past that time outside.. but those around us were also.. but none of us were overly noisy just normal conversation.

That said the weekend just gone we were other end of the field to a party that clearly could have done with following a set of rules!!! Shining tourches into the tent at gone 11pm whilst we were in bed! shouting for others to hurry up and join them on way to the toilets gone midnight.. right outside our tent.. even the children were out playing football and screaming at 6:30am

On the whole a lovely site and would go back... but i can see how others can be put of from a campsite so quickly it only takes one person to upset the balance by not understanding what comes naturally to most and thats (shamless thread plug! its an oldie but a good one...) Camping Etiquette

[Rob-merlin1973]

Yup i agree with Andy but i think a lot of this stems from how rules are worded and come over.

I think these particular rules could have been worded a bit differently and we would have all been happy with them.


I think the £20 per head deposit is a it much .... i can understand why.... but in this day and age where am i going to find £120 to leave as a deposit.......

[rexgrant]

Hi again
I would love to know about the snoring
Information link :- http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_from=R40 ... Categories
Regards
Rex.

[Luiiz]

I agree that everyone has there own opinion but as non family campers ( ie no kids) I tend to sleep with ear plugs in so I'm not disturbed by baby crying in the night ( I know this can't be helped!!), families getting up early and children playing ( and screaming) earlier than I prehaps get up! I agree that music off and voices to a min after 11 is common and think that a 11 o'clock noise rule is fair.
I also agree with no unsupervised teenaged roaming- not great when your wanting to have a cuddle with your other half or if they trip over your guys and end up falling on your tent or ripping it!!!
Think when camping you have to consider all around u- so those without children about the evening when those with children need quiet but also there other way round when those without children want a lye in!!!

Louise

[jonnie]

I think Rex chatting to his missus whilst doing a bit of star gazing is hardly the kind of activity this site is trying to ban.

Rules are a very tough area, my wife and I try and keep rules to a minimum but we do not allow anarchy - we live on site and we deal with each problem using the best judgement we can, we are vigilant and we nip most problems in the bud before they start.

Our only cardinal rules are....

1. Dogs on leash, bag and poo.
2. Quiet after 11.00
3. No smoking in toilets etc.

In addition children are asked to leave the playground at 10=00pm (noise carries at night) so that they can settle down a bit before bedtime - most parents appreciate this as otherwise they are left dealing with adrenaline fuelled kids.

The problem with rules is its like trying to find a shoe size to fit all.

Often irritation is based not on what is currently happening but rather on what you think may happen, your expectation of a group of lively pensioners is that they will have some good natured banter and then probably turn in - your expectation of a group of teenagers may be different.

One thing I have learnt time and time again running a campsite is not to be too quick to judge people or judge a sitiuation.

It is very easy to react to every event that happens with a new rule, I fully understand how some owners end up with a spriraling list of rules but judging by some reactions here this puts people off. My experience is that folks coming to relax and enjoy themselves have a short attention span so choose three of four cardinal rules - get those understood and then give up all hope of anyone reading rule 5 - short and simple is the best you can achieve, the more intuitive a rule the more chance that people will obey it - a speed limit sign that shows children playing is honoured more than one that just displays the allowed speed.

In my experience, particularly when it comes to repeat customers people prefer to put their faith in the owner if that owner shows interest and is not afraid to act. Rules are not flexible, for instance we had a group playing a surprisingly noisy table game because it seemed to involve banging playing pieces down on the table - their demeanour and attitude was fine - just a strangely noisy game - we simply asked them to play on a soft surface and that cured the problem for their neighbours, often you can find a solution if you are prepared to look at each case in turn - a light touch is often all that is necessary.

My faith in rules is low - we are very vigilant but we take the view that its nicer to first try and see if you can rely on people being reasonable and then when this fails nip the problem in the bud quickly by direct intervention. Also its very difficult to word rules because a sound level meter doesnt lie but people's reaction to noise is very subjective, indeed I would venture that its not always a case of what the noise is but who is making it and what their attitude is.

We had a group stay recently who had a guitar and liked to sing outside. We had an interesting debate about this because we could envisage a multitude of different reactions - some people would say "how charming" - others would say "bloody guitar......." we decided that the best thing to do was to first of all gently remind them of the 11.00 rule ( it was already a little past 11.00 ) and then secondly we would review the situation if they played on repeated nights as our assesment of the situation greatly depended on whether it was a "one off" which we would tolerate - or a repeated nightly thing in which case we would side with those who did not like some elses music choice imposed upon them. We talked discretely with one or two of their neighbours and got a take on their view, we felt that it was necessary to actually find out how people reacted rather than making our own assumptions. It seemed to us on this occassion that indeed people were prepared to be tolerant for one night but would not welcome a weeks worth of nightly sing-alongs, we didnt have to say anything more - the group didnt get the guitar out again, perhaps they assessed the situation accurately themselves.

This was also a dramatically different situation to that if someone had simply been playing music from a CD player or had the telly turned up to the same volume. A lot of people will show tolerance for something "live" and social of this nature if it happens infrequently.

I just dont see how rules could have dealt with this situation. Also the campers affected by a situation feel more tolerant themselves when they see that the campsite owner is ontop of the situation. I have to remind myself continually not to take any issue personally but to act without emotional baggage in the interests of the majority whilst at the same time encouraging tolerance for things that occur infrequently or are just an expression of people enjoying themselves - its a delicate balance and requires a clear neutral mind - its a professional skill.

The principal I work to is that minorities should not interfere to a great extent with the pleasure of the majority but to remember at the same time that every single individual on the campsite is on holiday, it may be their only holiday this year and therefore we have a great responsibility to handle issues in such a way that everyone walks away feeling good about the situation - you can only do this if you learn to deal with people well, find out whats actually going on rather than jumping to conclusions and also give people feedback - a lot of people feel better about a situation which compromised them if you explain to them later what actually was going on or demonstrate that you are untop of it - when folks are left in the dark they may assume the worst. Very very few people are actually bloody minded but most people can ACT bloody mindedly if they act in a vacuum - often all that is required is to raise awareness on the impact of one group on another in a reasonable and friendly way and people resolve the situation themselves without further external intervention.

Jon

[Southern-Dave]

I must be in a minority of one on this! I honestly think those rules are okay and no more than most site have to be honest if you look into them and read the small print. I think from the sounds of it they may have had trouble in the past with large groups of young adults, which a lot of the rules seem to be aimed at.

I couldn't see the rules about no talking to your wife after 11pm? There is mention of noise after 11pm, which is common to most sites, and there is specific mention of group noise, which again is far enough. We have been staying places where larger groups of people have a few glasses of wine and talk very loudly and enjoy themselves very loudly well into the wee hours, which is okay BUT I can see how this may and probably does disturb other people. In fact that whole paragraph is aimed at groups and groups of families (i.e. more than one family). I would also add the £20 bond seems to be in place to discourage group bookings altogether and if the site is set up for smaller, quieter campers than I don't see the problem with it really.

The section on BBQs seems common to most sites as well if in fact they allow BBQs at all as some don't. Ditto the rules on dogs. The rules on teenagers and children are a good idea I think and not unreasonable.

In short, the park seems aimed at single or small familes with the emphasis on peace and quiet. Given the number of parks available for noisy groups, activities and 'family fun' camping, I don't think that's a bad thing TBH, but I cannnot see anything in that list really that is over and above other places we have looked at other than the £20 bond, which I think is either a result of a bad incident or to deter groups bookings.

Each to their own I suppose!

[Wayne]

I think there is a mixture of agree and disagree with these rules which is interesting. I personally think everyone is right. The rules are exactly what some people are looking for, where as they don't suit others. Thankfully the ones the rules don't suit have other sites that fit them better.

That all said, the site might actually suit most people if the rules were written a little less threatening and the bond wasn't in place. I wonder if they have had the wrong sort of campers that caused a lot of problems and made the introduction of strongly worded rules and bonds a necessity, I think clubhouses have that effect

I have to be honest, would I stay here,,,,,,, . I'm not sure. Possibly not until Liam is 3+

I noticed everyone has focused on the children element of the rules. I quite liked the fact that dogs must be kept on leads at all times (max 2m) and must not be left in the tent unattended. I have a dog and love dogs, but I hate it when a dog has been on a site for a few days and gets territorial and starts racing across the field barking at you before the owner decides to call it back or they wander over to another field to meet friends for drinks all evening whilst we sit listening to the dog whining all night. As Donnelly says it pays to have the site warden on speed dial

[Curlyminx]

I don't have a problem with the rules, in fact I might go there as it would be nice to find a quiet site with a pool that doesn't have a noise/anti-social behaviour problem.

I do wonder what problems they've had that led to the wording of the rules though.

We don't have kids, so can't comment on fairness of rules for kids, although some of the children I've seen recently on a site we were checking out looked a bit too free range if you know what I mean, so we won't be going there. I'd love to have kids of my own, so I'm all for kids having fun, and it's great to see them enjoying the simpler things in life.

We do have dogs. The rules they have for dogs are common sense, not a problem for me. On my last trip there was a dog who barked loudly every time anyone walked past his pitch, which was by the loo block. Not good. I would have stopped my dog from doing that if it was me.

We've not had any particular problem at sites we've been to, which may be luck but it may be due to me looking for quiet sites. If I wanted a club etc, I'd book a site with one on it, and expect a bit more noise.

Part of the joy of camping for me is to be closer to nature, and sitting in the door of the tent staring up at the starts is fantastic, and quiet too

We are all different, so we'll all respond differently I guess. I'm not a lover of rules usually, but they do help to set a common expectation for all campers, it's when people have different expectations that problems start maybe?

[jonnie]

I quite liked the fact that dogs must be kept on leads at all times (max 2m) and must not be left in the tent unattended. I have a dog and love dogs, but I hate it when a dog has been on a site for a few days and gets territorial and starts racing across the field barking at you before the owner decides to call it back or they wander over to another field to meet friends for drinks all evening whilst we sit listening to the dog whining all night. As Donnelly says it pays to have the site warden on speed dial

Hi Wayne

Yesterday we had a large dog bite a child on the hand, the wound needed two stitches and the child was in shock so the family abandoned their holiday and left our campsite. The wound was deep but very clean and so the major long term damage may be psychological - the child said that they did not want to stay on the campsite because now they felt scared.

We are 100% strict on dogs on leashes, this one was actually correctly tethered outside the shop. We spoke with the owner who had obeyed our leash rules and said that in light of what had happended we had to regard the dog as dangerous so if they continued their stay then the dog would also need muzzling at all times. They were actually rather shocked and upset themselves and decided to stay and muzzle the dog, I suspect this was the first time the dog had reacted that way ( in itself a note of caution to dog owners who 'think' their dog is entirely predictable ).

I am not knowledgeable on dogs but this one was large and powerful although not immediately aggressive looking, I would estimate he weighed in excess of nine stone. I think that the dog had been irritated by the kid perhaps stroking in an unsympathetic manner - but I have seen two year olds try and emulate adults stroking animals and yes they are heavy handed and clumsy and the animal in question often does not appreciate the attention. There is no such thing as "child at fault" in my book - dog attacks on children have to be taken seriously - the common sense you may expect from a seven year old will not be present in a two year old and on that basis 'case closed' in my view.

I take the view that any child should be able to wander almost anywhere on the campsite without being at risk or feeling at risk - an aggressive barking dog that has become territorial to the pitch is a problem, especially when left tethered but unattended and especially when you consider that the campsite owner has legitimate reason to go onto any pitch at any time ( electrical problems, mowing etc ) - I am used to dogs and I generally can work without undue concern but all the same I tend to resent a dog that is on my land and is being aggresive as I go about my normal work patterns.

One of the major problems I find is that many dog owners think they know their dog in the same way that many parents "think" they know their teenager kids - but in reality most are often surprised what the "kids" get up to when they are not looking - I am usually the one left trying to catch a loose hound at 3=00am who has been allowed out ( to take a p**** ) by the sleepy owner but has not returned.

I have had owners say "Ohh he never runs around - he just goes out has a pee and then comes straight back - they tell me this after I have just told them I spent the last hour chasing their dog around the site - not sure why they dont spot the contradiction but there you go.

We always take pains to give a polite caution to dog owners who decide to flaunt the leash rule and it is a deliberate flaunting because they are told verbally when they arrive - in addition one only has to see the sheepish look on the face when they hurridly re-tether the dog when you appear unexpectedly to know it is intentional they understood the leash rule but conciously flaunt it. Not ill-meaning because of course they act on the principal that their hound is different to the ones that are a problem but of course that logic applied universally says that kids should never get bit and I should never have the unpleasent experience of strimming or mowing and then smelling that horrible tell-tale smell and neither of these statements turn out to be true so collectively dog owners need to accept that leash and "bag the poo" rules will tend to be applied strictly and without exception by any responsible and dilgent campsite owner.

My position is that I will continue to try and work amiably, politely and responsibly with dog owners but compromise whether voluntary or imposed will usually rest with the dog owner, people know the limitations and restrictions involved when they decide to buy a dog and must accept that campsite owners will usually tend to look after the interests of the non-dog owner first. I have a cat and it compromises my choices of vacation in winter just like the arrival of my (now) two year old put a great big hole in my opportunities to go out and drink beer - in my view thats life - you make choices about pets and children and accept the limitations as well as the pleasure that they bring with them.

Jon

PS: Also last year two occassions of hounds getting very distraught and barking incessently on account of being left unattended on very hot days in caravan tents - not much different to leaving a dog in your car. Its not always possible to predict what temperatures will arise at mid-day when leaving for the beach (sans pooch) first thing in the morning. This year we have had only one occassion of this so far.

[Curlyminx]

Thanks for that Jonnie, what an awful situation for you to be put in.

We make sure our dogs are on leads, or tethers or are secured inside one of portable kennels that we bought for camping.

I would never leave my dogs in a car, tent or awning, they come with us. If I want to do something that I can't do with the dogs I find a local dog day care kennel, it costs about £20 a day for 2 dogs, they are happy there and we can have a bit more freedom.

I also try to educate kids that run up to my dogs and stroke them that they should always ask first, I'm fairly sure of my dogs' temperaments but I dread the child meeting a larger, unfriendly dog one day.

[rexgrant]

Hi all,
Jonni as put it in a nut shell ( its a professional skill.) against the jobsworth manager/warden. as far as the camper goes we have to live and let live. When my camping life began all campsites we visited had plenty of space between the tents ,but today with campers requiring ,level hard standing .mains electric,and all the comforts we have at home. as produced sites with very little space between the units. let us face it if you get a 12meter pitch you may still be only 6 meter from a motorized unit and they can still legally put tents 3 meters apart in some towns planning regulations
We are at present on a very small site just outside Penzance with the best wardens I have ever come across I will do a review when we come home the site is called Bonevalley camp site.
best regards
Rex

[jonnie]

Hi all,
We are at present on a very small site just outside Penzance with the best wardens I have ever come across I will do a review when we come home the site is called Bonevalley camp site.
best regards
Rex

Hi Rex

Your phrase "the best wardens I have ever come across" caught my attention, I would be very interested to read your review when you write it up to hopefully hear more about the qualities that made the wardens stand out for you. Hope you enjoy the rest of your stay in Penzance.

Kind regards

Jonnie

[alandkell]

we have earplugs so either way i think we got it sorted!

[Guin74]

We wouldn't use this campsite just because of the £20 bond rule. We go camping as a family. My mum and dad (in their 60s) have their tent. my sister, her OH and her 5 year old in theirs. Myself, my OH and 1 teenage daughter in ours and my other teenage daughter and her OH in theirs. We like to sit out on an evening together for a chat but are usually in bed early because of my nieces' illness and my dad gets really tired. Because we live quite far apart my dad enjoys our weekends away as a family. Paying a bond of £180 to make sure we're quiet seems a bit excessive.